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Thread: Need help with an AABBB arrangement, please.

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by nimbleswitch View Post
    ...(on the Conventions page) it says ". . . we came from a jazz perspective initially so we saw the app as being something you might have to use on a gig (perhaps without a rehearsal) so clarity and consistency were important to us." ... maybe they just mean they envisioned musicians just using the chart at gigs, not gigging with the playback....
    iReal book and subsequently, iReal b initially did not have a built-in player. I suspect the app was initially designed as an electronic (and transposing!) version Pocket Changes, a small format, spiral-bound, chords-only fake-booklet popular with bassists.
    Still available:
    http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...C#.UrNas_F5mK0
    http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?P...8994#msg798994

    The player feature was added later and (I believe) was intended for practice use.
    I think the first mention of performance use of the player wasn't until April, 2010
    http://www.irealb.com/forums/showthr...=3464#post3464

    )BOB
    Last edited by pdxdjazz; 12-19-2013 at 04:52 PM.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by nimbleswitch View Post
    Yeah, it's a lot of fun just playing around with this app. I did notice, on re-readin the Conventions page that you sent, that near the very top it says ". . . we came from a jazz perspective initially so we saw the app as being something you might have to use on a gig (perhaps without a rehearsal) so clarity and consistency were important to us." I can't say that I remember reading that the first time I read the Conventions page. So, it seems that they were thinking about making arrangements for gigging from the start. However, maybe they just mean they envisioned musicians just using the chart at gigs, not gigging with the playback. But it seems people are using it that way. A couple of months ago in Palm Springs I saw and heard a jazz sax man playing a solo gig, and he played against iReal (b or Pro) playback all evening.
    I gig using iReal as my "sidemen" quite frequently. (It is, in fact, the sole purpose I bought my iPod Touch for originally.) And I often use "tricks" in my personal charts to make the Player do things (especially on endings). But, as I've said before, files posted for public distribution (particularly in the "Songs" Forum) should be a reasonable compromise between playback and sight-reading, and always meet accepted manuscript norms. My initial worry about incorporating some of Jack's discoveries is that they might not work so well in future versions of iReal. And lord knows what happens if you try to export them to another program. Anyway, just tossing in my two cents. Have fun and good luck.
    There's two kinds of mistakes you can play: The ones you notice, and the ones somebody else might notice.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by dflat View Post
    Yes this is a bit odd, but you have not used a closing repeat at the back of the 1st time ending which is what the player is expecting to see. I cannot remember ever seeing a 1st time ending without a closing repeat, they might exist but I am not sure they are very common because generally you can simply use repeats (unless it has a complicated form or nested repeats etc.)
    So we did not check the behavior of the location of the double barline for this instance.

    Just to make it clear to anyone else following this thread, here is a way to have the form, by changing where the opening repeat and segno are:
    (I think this is what you would have done already Jack?)

    BBB more correct - Borodin-Forrest-Wright
    Hi, dflat-

    I wonder if you noticed that your form suffers from the same quirk as mine? You inserted a double bar at the back of the 2nd Ending. But if you go in and remove that double bar and instead insert it from the front of the next measure (i.e., the Coda measure), when you play it back it goes straight to Coda and out — no repeats.

    I guess the lesson is to make sure to insert the double bars at the end of a section, not at the beginning of the next section — at least in an Ending. Maybe in other instances as well, I dunno. Anyway, as long as we're careful to insert double bars at the end of the last measure in the section, either of our forms plays well in playback. It just becomes a matter of which form you prefer to see on the chart. I'm no musician or musicologist, so I don't really know, but I think I like the looks of yours better, for some reason.
    Last edited by nimbleswitch; 12-19-2013 at 06:09 PM.
    Jack

  4. #24
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by nimbleswitch View Post
    I wonder if you noticed that your form suffers from the same quirk as mine?
    I am not surprised, no I did not check. As I finished that measure, I just inserted the right barline to end it.
    We will look into this quirk, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by nimbleswitch View Post
    I'm no musician or musicologist, so I don't really know, but I think I like the looks of yours better, for some reason.
    Mine adheres to music convention. Your way could be valid (although not usual - like I said, I have never seen it) but there is no reason I can think of to have it the way you had it when it can be done in this way.

  5. #25
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    While we're on the subject of the numbered Endings, the phrase, e.g., "D.S. al 3rd End." won't fit in a single 4-bars-to-a-line (system) measure, but I've found that you don't need that entire phrase. Just "D.S. al 3rd" works just as well on playback and will fit in one normal measure. Caution, though, as others have pointed out, there's no guarantee this will work in future updates or versions.
    Last edited by nimbleswitch; 12-20-2013 at 04:04 AM.
    Jack

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by nimbleswitch View Post
    ..."D.S. al 3rd End." won't fit in a single 4-bars-to-a-line (system) measure...
    If you're placing that on the far right measure, it can run off the page and the Player doesn't care. (But someone else trying to read the chart might care.)
    There's two kinds of mistakes you can play: The ones you notice, and the ones somebody else might notice.

  7. #27
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    Dec 2009
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    True. I'm pretty used to just "D.S. al 3rd" now for my charts anyway. I've been using the 3rd Ending lately instead of the Coda, mostly because my charts are full of lyrics and the Coda sign seems to plop down in the middle of lyric text too often.

    I'm about halfway through converting my lyrics charts over such they are more like dflat suggested, except using a 3rd Ending instead of a Coda. So I suppose my charts are still not going to be conventional -- but they're just for me anyway.
    Last edited by nimbleswitch; 12-21-2013 at 06:27 PM.
    Jack

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