Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: Newbie needing direction

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    13

    Default Newbie needing direction

    Hello!

    Apologies for asking what is most likely a common question but I've spent a good amount of time watching tutorials, videos, and reading the online manual and I'm still confused.

    I'm running iRP v8.0.2 on my iMac as well as on my iPad. Right now all I want to do is input some chord changes so that I can practice improvising over them on my B flat trumpet.

    I read a post about transposing but I did not understand the answer.

    If I put a G maj scale in to iRP, do I set the Key signature to the transposing instrument? B flat? When I input the chord to G I get an A, which is not the scale I should be playing.

    I watched this video https://vimeo.com/51040860 which has a "scales" option at the bottom. My version of iRP does not have that. Has this been changed in the later versions?

    Thanks for your help!

    -tj in the Cruz Mtns
    "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Dewey Davis III
    Yamaha Custom Eric Miyashiro model
    1982 L.A. Benge MLP #39517-purchased new for my 16th birthday
    1969 Yamaha 734 #017137A
    1953 Olds Recording #124152
    Couesnon Flugel #83791
    DEG Dynasty 2v G Bugel nickel plate (SCV 50th Anniversary Alumni Corps Ax)
    Conn Director-my very first trumpet from 3rd grade

  2. #2

    Default

    Transposing can be confusing.

    I assume you have the global transpose feature activated and set to Bb. That automatically DISPLAYS all your charts in your transposed key while the player plays in the concert key.

    When you open (or write) a song in the editor, IT IS DISPLAYED IN CONCERT KEY.

    Your song is in G concert. That is how it should appear in the editor. The song's default key (in the editor) should be set to G.
    Click "Done".
    In song view, it will display in A but the player will play it in G. If you transpose the chart further in song view it will get very confusing. (but the player will still play a whole-step below the displayed chords in the chart)

    Find the guitar/ukulele/piano chord diagrams (the BIG ones) that change while the player plays. That is where the chord scales diagrams are selected. (Not the small diagrams throughout the chart found in FONTS)

    http://irealpro.com/version-history/...n-history-mac/
    )BOB
    Last edited by pdxdjazz; 10-26-2017 at 08:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Bob,

    Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes, I have "Transposing instrument" in prefs set to Bb and set the editor for the song the key is in.

    I guess I don't understand the value in having the player display in A. As a novice improviser I need/want to see the notes in the chords as I play along. To me that's one of the key values of the tool, not just hearing the chords, but seeing the notes as the change progresses.

    Regards,
    TJ

    Quote Originally Posted by pdxdjazz View Post
    Transposing can be confusing.

    I assume you have the global transpose feature activated and set to Bb. That automatically DISPLAYS all your charts in your transposed key while the player plays in the concert key.

    When you open (or write) a song in the editor, IT IS DISPLAYED IN CONCERT KEY.

    Your song is in G concert. That is how it should appear in the editor. The song's default key (in the editor) should be set to G.
    Click "Done".
    In song view, it will display in A but the player will play it in G. If you transpose the chart further in song view it will get very confusing. (but the player will still play a whole-step below the displayed chords in the chart)

    Find the guitar/ukulele/piano chord diagrams (the BIG ones) that change while the player plays. That is where the chord scales diagrams are selected. (Not the small diagrams throughout the chart found in FONTS)

    http://irealpro.com/version-history/...n-history-mac/
    )BOB
    "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Dewey Davis III
    Yamaha Custom Eric Miyashiro model
    1982 L.A. Benge MLP #39517-purchased new for my 16th birthday
    1969 Yamaha 734 #017137A
    1953 Olds Recording #124152
    Couesnon Flugel #83791
    DEG Dynasty 2v G Bugel nickel plate (SCV 50th Anniversary Alumni Corps Ax)
    Conn Director-my very first trumpet from 3rd grade

  4. #4

    Default

    Have you found the CHORD SCALES diagrams that can be displayed measure by measure during play?

    Those diagrams should be helpful to you.
    iReal pro is a chord chart app.

    I play with a clarinetist (also a Bb instrument). He has learned how to read/follow the chord changes in concert-key charts. For example, he's happy looking over another player's shoulder at a C - RealBook. Instead of using a Bb - RealBook. My point: you don't have to use the global transpose feature. It's optional.
    )BOB
    Last edited by pdxdjazz; 10-27-2017 at 02:07 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Bob,

    I fear either I'm doing something wrong or not communicating clearly.

    I think that I AM using the chord scales diagrams, and they're the ones that are reading concert whilst I'm playing a Bb chord. For a newbie, I can't transpose on the fly and pay attention to the measure I'm on as well as the notes in the chords.

    Regards,
    TJ


    Quote Originally Posted by pdxdjazz View Post
    Have you found the CHORD SCALES diagrams that can be displayed measure by measure during play?

    Those diagrams should be helpful to you.
    iReal pro is a chord chart app.

    I play with a clarinetist (also a Bb instrument). He has learned how to read/follow the chord changes in concert-key charts. For example, he's happy looking over another player's shoulder at a C - RealBook. Instead of using a Bb - RealBook. My point: you don't have to use the global transpose feature. It's optional.
    )BOB
    "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Dewey Davis III
    Yamaha Custom Eric Miyashiro model
    1982 L.A. Benge MLP #39517-purchased new for my 16th birthday
    1969 Yamaha 734 #017137A
    1953 Olds Recording #124152
    Couesnon Flugel #83791
    DEG Dynasty 2v G Bugel nickel plate (SCV 50th Anniversary Alumni Corps Ax)
    Conn Director-my very first trumpet from 3rd grade

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,871

    Default

    The chord/scale window might need refreshing. This could happen if you have been playing around with the Global transpose in Prefs. Set it to Bb for your trumpet, then change the soft transpose key in song view (bottom right) to another key then back to Concert key (this refreshes it). You should now see the chord chart set to your trumpet key and if you click on a measure, the scale for that chord should be seen.

    -----

    I made a simple song and show the input steps.
    I created a new song and set the key to G (your trumpet key so you do not need to transpose each chord as you enter them, you just copy them in) [1]
    To set the key, choose G from the Key signature drop down menu, then click the SET button and you should see two G letters there, one on the left to indicate it is set in G and the G from the menu window on its right.

    Then I entered the G chords within the chart area with barlines and time signature.
    After finishing the chart, I need to transpose to F as it needs to be in concert key, which is F. I chose F from the Key menu and clicked the Set and Transpose button. [2]
    You can see it says F in both places in the Key signature area.

    Save, close.

    Make sure it is set to concert key (bottom right) (in this case, F).
    Check Global transpose is set to Bb although you can see this written on the chart itself "Bb-Part".
    Bring up the chord/scale window (control-C) and click on a measure. [3]
    (If it does not correspond, refresh by changing the key bottom right to some other key then back to F concert.)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	36.0 KB 
ID:	465Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2.jpg 
Views:	45 
Size:	37.8 KB 
ID:	466Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	43.4 KB 
ID:	467

    Here is the file, click to import:
    Song trumpet G key - Unknown Composer


    Does any of this help?

    You ask other questions in previous posts, I will make some comments on these once we have you understanding what we are doing here.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    13

    Default

    dflat,

    Yes, this is an enormous help, and I can't thank you enough for your kindness and patience.

    OK, I was able to replicate the desired outcome by using your instructions. I was going to show you what I'd done but I started by only inputting the first 4 chords so I could see if it worked without risking wasting a lot of energy. I was successful in that I had the chord scales reflecting the notes I'd play on a Bb horn.

    When I went back to edit the piece so I could complete the rest of the changes I was not able to get it to revert to G in the edit window.

    I'll try doing the entire set of changes now as you instruct and see how that works.

    Best Regards,
    TJ
    "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Dewey Davis III
    Yamaha Custom Eric Miyashiro model
    1982 L.A. Benge MLP #39517-purchased new for my 16th birthday
    1969 Yamaha 734 #017137A
    1953 Olds Recording #124152
    Couesnon Flugel #83791
    DEG Dynasty 2v G Bugel nickel plate (SCV 50th Anniversary Alumni Corps Ax)
    Conn Director-my very first trumpet from 3rd grade

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2017-10-28 at 11.26.45 PM.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	53.7 KB 
ID:	468

    dflat,

    So how does this look?

    I'm not sure if I'm using the #9 properly. I am assuming that doing this is the same as the "+9" in the music, which is augmented, right?

    Regards,
    TJ
    "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Dewey Davis III
    Yamaha Custom Eric Miyashiro model
    1982 L.A. Benge MLP #39517-purchased new for my 16th birthday
    1969 Yamaha 734 #017137A
    1953 Olds Recording #124152
    Couesnon Flugel #83791
    DEG Dynasty 2v G Bugel nickel plate (SCV 50th Anniversary Alumni Corps Ax)
    Conn Director-my very first trumpet from 3rd grade

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tjjazz View Post
    When I went back to edit the piece so I could complete the rest of the changes I was not able to get it to revert to G in the edit window.
    If you are going to re-edit the song it would be best to transpose it into Bb trumpet key again, so you can follow your printed chart which is in trumpet key.
    Choose the key (in this case G) from the Key sig menu and click the Set and transpose button, then you can make your alterations; then again choose F and Set and transpose back to concert F key, Save, Close.

    Background:
    The SET button is used to lock in a default key for the key the chords are in. (It cannot know what key you are entering the chords in, because songs or exercises have different chords throughout, so you use SET to tell it what key.) This is why you SET a key when you first start inputting a new song (by default it says C, but with any other key, it needs to be changed and set for those chords—whether the chords are concert or transposed for a transposing instrument, just make sure it is the key for the chords you see in edit mode).
    For re-editing, assuming you have transposing instrument chords, use Set and transpose after you open so you are in transposed instrument key (so you don't need to transpose in your head to enter or check the chords), then just before you save, Set and transpose back to concert key.
    You should only need to use SET the once to tell it what key the chords are in. If you mistakenly have clicked this instead of Set and transpose, undo, or change the key back from the menu and Set again.
    The key on the left of the drop down key menu shows the current key the chart is set to and should always match up with the key the chords are based in, no matter whether it is concert key or transposing instrument key. You will see it change when you press Set or Set and transpose.


    Yes use #9.

    Nice to know you are making progress with this. I will make some additional comments a little later, but let me know if you can re-edit what you have done and are becoming familiar with Set and transpose as you go in and out of edit.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,871

    Default

    From what I can understand, you want to improvise with some chords with your Bb trumpet. As you know there is the concert key and a different key for trumpet. The trumpet chords you want to practice with on trumpet will need to be transposed to concert before you save the song and start the player.
    The easiest way to do this is to input your trumpet chords, then transpose to concert before saving.

    Create a new song, title it and set the key (of the chords for your trumpet, meaning, if you have some G major scales to practice on trumpet or the song is in your trumpet key of G or the chord progressions are based in G, then set it to G.) Change the key to G and click the Set button.
    Choose a default playback style (as you probably know, you can change this in song view).
    Enter a time signature, add barlines and chords as required.
    Once finished, you will need to transpose this song to Concert key a whole step (tone) below, in this case, change the key to F and click the Set and Transpose button. Save, Close.

    Make sure Global transpose is set for your trumpet, in Prefs set to Bb instrument. You will now see it back to G, but the player will know it in F concert, which is what you should see bottom right in the Key window (if it is not set to F, then change it there).

    You will need to be able to think in both your concert key and your trumpet Bb key but this will come over time as you deal with keys. The player needs to be set to the song's concert key; songs need to be either created in concert or entered in the instrument's key, then Set and Transpose to concert key before saving so you need to be able to convert in your head from your key to concert key to do this last step.
    In song view, the player thinks in concert key and this is the key you choose in the Key window (and this only works if you have correctly saved concert chords and specified its key in concert in edit mode).

    For the future, here are a few other keys to help you convert. The first key is your trumpet (Bb) key, the second is concert.
    G - F
    D - C
    E - D
    A - G
    G - F
    C - Bb

    If you want to change a few of the chords of a practice song for further learning, you could duplicate the song, in Edit mode, change the chords back to your trumpet key (temporarily) (up a whole tone so it is showing in your trumpet key again) using Set and Transpose (in this case, to key G), make your changes, then (key F) Set transpose back down to concert before you save.

    As you progress, you can use these same charts (songs) as practice for other keys. For instance, your F (concert) song you entered above (seen by you in G) can be transposed in Song view using the soft transpose menu (bottom right). For example if you want to practice these chords now in your trumpet's key of D, then change it to C (concert key). It will play in concert C but show you the chords in D.

    When you turn on scales, these will show in your trumpet's key (assuming Global transpose is set to Bb).

    I hope this helps.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Do you have any questions?

Check out our Support page

Sign up to our newsletter
Join us