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Thread: The Great Gig Book (Blue Book)

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    351

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    Quote Originally Posted by docdosco View Post
    I brought up this subject on the thread originally, as I had found some tunes (in my short time with the ireal program) that I didn't agree with on the changes. Having used the Great Gig Book (Blue Book) for a quite a while now, I am really happy with the changes on almost all the tunes... mainly because they are good changes. I had found some tunes here that even though I had downloaded a bunch of collections, and had 3 versions of some tunes, on these tunes the changes did not knock me out. (IMO of course)

    An example is Beginning To See The Light. The GGB changes are just better to my ear than the charts I found here. Someone may have uploaded a better version here, but I didn't get it in my download of collections.

    I can re-write that chart for myself for gigs. Not a big deal. But, it would be nice if a GGB collection were started in the forum and people could add charts to the collection if they have made a fresh chart using the GGB as the source. Some tunes, like the Mexican Hat Dance and ethnic songs like it are not of interest to me, so there are GGB selections that wouldn't be missed if they were left out.

    However, there are many versions in the GGB that are superior (in various degrees) to other books. The point was made that fake books, in general, don't use the hippest changes. While true, there is nothing that precludes the charts here from being the best possible. Of course, what is the 'best' chart is subjective. I can't bitch at having hundreds and hundreds of jazz and standard charts already written out and available at the click of a mouse, even if I have to flavor some to my taste. But.... if there were a GGB thread where people could upload charts based on the GGB, I would certainly find that useful.

    I guess the rub will be, are there enough people here interested in a GGB collection, and would people contribute enough to make it worth while. It would take some time and effort from someone to monitor the collection and make it into a cohesive book ready for download, without having bits and pieces scattered here and there. I have noticed that there are many lovely charts buried in the dark corridors and musty corners of this forum. (it is halloween after all). To make a collection of 'prefered changes' is not going to fly with everyone. As I indicated, my 'cool changes' may not be that to someone else. However, a collection of charts with changes found in the GGB would be a welcome addition to the many wonderful versions that are available here. : )

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

    Doc Dosco
    The GGB looks just like The Ultimate Fake Book and The Best Fake Book. They're all vanilla chords. Experienced pianists wouldn't play those vanilla chords. The best chords are in the three New Real Books and The Standards Real Book. Check out some of the reharms by Engelbach (excuse the spelling), myself (Raymb1) and a few others on this forum. If you're a jazz player, the chords in the GGB are standard vanilla chords. Look for Stella By Starlight in the forum. You'll never find those chords in any fake book. Many of the songs included in the iReal downloads have better chords than the GGB.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by raymb1 View Post
    The GGB looks just like The Ultimate Fake Book and The Best Fake Book. They're all vanilla chords. Experienced pianists wouldn't play those vanilla chords. The best chords are in the three New Real Books and The Standards Real Book. Check out some of the reharms by Engelbach (excuse the spelling), myself (Raymb1) and a few others on this forum. If you're a jazz player, the chords in the GGB are standard vanilla chords. Look for Stella By Starlight in the forum. You'll never find those chords in any fake book. Many of the songs included in the iReal downloads have better chords than the GGB.
    Touchy, aren't we? Damn, yes I am a jazz player, and what people (including you) regard as 'vanilla' chords is subjective. I'm glad that you know what experienced piano players would and wouldn't play. I don't really care. A fake book is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. I like the GGB and from what I gather, there are others here that do too. Does it have the perfect changes for all the tunes? No, I'm sure there are some tunes that don't have world's best changes. However, I haved used this book to gig with for the past 10 years and it's has proved convenient to have a book with as many tunes as this has and those contained in the GGB generally have very useable changes.

    Whether anyone cares to have this as a collection here was the question someone brought up. Personally, I really don't give a hoot. I am fully capable of writing out charts the way I like them on my own. It was just a suggestion.

    Doc Dosco

  3. #23

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    Hey Doc
    You're welcome and encouraged to share charts in the forums.
    Just describe and label them so as to avoid confusion.
    Folks are free to download 'em or not, play 'em or not and like 'em or not.
    Different strokes...
    http://www.irealb.com/forums/showthr...3873#post33873
    )BOB

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    518

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    Quote Originally Posted by docdosco View Post
    Touchy, aren't we? Damn, yes I am a jazz player, and what people (including you) regard as 'vanilla' chords is subjective. I'm glad that you know what experienced piano players would and wouldn't play. I don't really care. A fake book is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. I like the GGB and from what I gather, there are others here that do too. Does it have the perfect changes for all the tunes? No, I'm sure there are some tunes that don't have world's best changes. However, I haved used this book to gig with for the past 10 years and it's has proved convenient to have a book with as many tunes as this has and those contained in the GGB generally have very useable changes.
    Whether anyone cares to have this as a collection here was the question someone brought up. Personally, I really don't give a hoot. I am fully capable of writing out charts the way I like them on my own. It was just a suggestion.

    Doc Dosco
    Doc .. you took the words right out of my mouth Thanks
    Don't post a playlist as the songs in a Realbook if the changes aren't from the book.
    If you do transcribe changes from a book put it in the title RB1, RB2, GGB, Sher, etc

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    351

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    Quote Originally Posted by docdosco View Post
    Touchy, aren't we? Damn, yes I am a jazz player, and what people (including you) regard as 'vanilla' chords is subjective. I'm glad that you know what experienced piano players would and wouldn't play. I don't really care. A fake book is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. I like the GGB and from what I gather, there are others here that do too. Does it have the perfect changes for all the tunes? No, I'm sure there are some tunes that don't have world's best changes. However, I haved used this book to gig with for the past 10 years and it's has proved convenient to have a book with as many tunes as this has and those contained in the GGB generally have very useable changes.

    Whether anyone cares to have this as a collection here was the question someone brought up. Personally, I really don't give a hoot. I am fully capable of writing out charts the way I like them on my own. It was just a suggestion.

    Doc Dosco
    I wasn't getting touchy about anything, just pointing out that [I think] there are better alternatives to the GGB. I apologize for not explaining myself in a better manner.
    Last edited by pdxdjazz; 11-01-2015 at 11:24 AM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by raymb1 View Post
    I wasn't getting touchy about anything, just pointing out that [I think] there are better alternatives to the GGB. I apologize for not explaining myself in a better manner.
    It's all cool. There are always preferred changes for tunes and not everyone's are the same. I look for charts that aren't too cluttered with extensions and heavy with transition type chords. I want a chart that plays well and that another musician can read off at a gig. I am not looking for piano style arrangements. I'm sure other people are and that's fine.

    I have noticed also, that to coax the rhythm section in ireal to play some of the charts similar to the way I choose to voice lead chords, the chord symbols start to like a dog's breakfast. My experimental ireal renderings may sound closer to my voicing approach when I play live, but I wouldn't stick that chart up on a gig. I don't like charts that are too fuzzy to sight-read easily.

    However, overall, the rhythm section in the program is stellar. I am really digging the fact I can print out dynamite charts and also use the rhythm section to rehearse with. I asked my upright player on the last gig if we should convert all the tunes in my book to iPad (as she has one, along with the program) and she said no thanks. Reading from the ireal printed charts is still easier on the eyes. You can see the changes from across the room practically. That feature alone makes the program nearly indispensable for me right now. I still have to bring a book to gigs, however it is just one book with easy to read charts.

    So, all in all, I don't think I have ever had a music program as useful as ireal.

    As to the optimal changes for tunes, there are ireal charts that are perfect. But Beautiful has dynamite changes. In fact, all the Jimmy Van-Heusen tunes here are spot on. For changes that don't knock me out, I can easily add or subtract a few chords here or there.

    Doc Dosco

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobsax View Post
    I came here looking for One Note Samba changes.
    The ones from the original playlist seem wrong and I wanted to look for other versions (like the Blue Book...)
    I just transcribed One Note Samba from the Great Gig Book (BLUE BOOK)
    I started with a duplicate of the iRp chart from the 1300 and planned to "correct" chords as neccessary.

    The iRp chart writes out the 16 bars after the B section.
    The GBB uses a coda form instead (to save space on the page).
    Chord differences:
    None in the first 16 bars (A SECTION)
    In the B section, the iRp chart uses: C#-7|F#7|B▵7 (ii,V,I) to the B.
    The GGB version instead uses Db-7|Gb7| B▵7 Same chords, different names.
    The first half of the next bar features a CØ7 (iRp), C-7b5 (GBB) again, same chord.
    The second half of the final bar in the B section contains the only variance.
    IRp=F7
    GGB=B7#11
    The only musical difference between the chords in the two charts is in the final two beats of the last bar in the B-section.

    One Note Samba GGB - Antonio-Carlos Jobim

    )BOB
    Last edited by pdxdjazz; 11-02-2015 at 11:48 PM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by docdosco View Post
    It's all cool. There are always preferred changes for tunes and not everyone's are the same. I look for charts that aren't too cluttered with extensions and heavy with transition type chords. I want a chart that plays well and that another musician can read off at a gig. I am not looking for piano style arrangements. I'm sure other people are and that's fine.

    I have noticed also, that to coax the rhythm section in ireal to play some of the charts similar to the way I choose to voice lead chords, the chord symbols start to like a dog's breakfast. My experimental ireal renderings may sound closer to my voicing approach when I play live, but I wouldn't stick that chart up on a gig. I don't like charts that are too fuzzy to sight-read easily.

    However, overall, the rhythm section in the program is stellar. I am really digging the fact I can print out dynamite charts and also use the rhythm section to rehearse with. I asked my upright player on the last gig if we should convert all the tunes in my book to iPad (as she has one, along with the program) and she said no thanks. Reading from the ireal printed charts is still easier on the eyes. You can see the changes from across the room practically. That feature alone makes the program nearly indispensable for me right now. I still have to bring a book to gigs, however it is just one book with easy to read charts.

    So, all in all, I don't think I have ever had a music program as useful as ireal.

    As to the optimal changes for tunes, there are ireal charts that are perfect. But Beautiful has dynamite changes. In fact, all the Jimmy Van-Heusen tunes here are spot on. For changes that don't knock me out, I can easily add or subtract a few chords here or there.

    Doc Dosco
    PLAYER CHARTS vs. READER CHARTS
    http://www.irealb.com/forums/showthr...5854#post25854

    I prefer to use "night mode" - white text, black background, all the time (except in bright sunlight).
    I rarely increase screen brightness above ~50%.

    )BOB
    Last edited by pdxdjazz; 11-02-2015 at 12:02 PM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by pdxdjazz View Post
    PLAYER CHARTS vs. READER CHARTS
    http://www.irealb.com/forums/showthr...5854#post25854

    I prefer to use "night mode" - white text, black background, all the time (except in bright sunlight).
    I rarely increase screen brightness above ~50%.

    )BOB

    Bob,

    I must say that the depth of ireal is impressive even with one page charts. The white text/black bg is a useful hint also. Eventually when I get ireal on an iPad I'll be back with questions, no doubt. In the meantime, it sits on my MacBook Pro, and is the best $20 ever spent on a music program. The only other one that comes close is Transcribe!, but for other reasons of course.

    BTW, if you look at I'm Beginning to see the light, you'll see the GGB at it's best. Probably not the original changes, but, these changes are super. Now, I have found several GGB charts that aren't as good as other places, but since I have so many fakes of jazz standards, I can browse the various versions if I need to. Also, my ear hears certain substitution as a matter of course, and those changes don't have to be written. It's only when there is a fundamental disagreement in changes.

    There is a point about some books having vanilla changes. It's not the vanilla-ness of changes that I object to so much as changes that just don't sound optimal over the melody (and sometimes they are plain wrong to my ear). One can have solid changes in a chart without any upper extensions if the maj/min/7th chords are all found in the right places. Most of the musician's here, I suspect, are quite capable of of putting in their own major/minor/altered dominant extensions in. I don't need them written unless said extension is in the melody. It's the use of cool substitutions or compound chords/polychords can bring a chart to life oft times, however too many moving changes and slash chords can become cumbersome too. I am looking for clear, concise changes and for the most part, the ireal charts have that.

    Anyway, Bob, keep up the good work. It's nice that you have taken such an interest in this forum. Herding cats, someone said? Ha!

    Doc Dosco
    Last edited by pdxdjazz; 11-02-2015 at 11:38 PM.

  10. #30

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    Hey Doc,
    Could you post a comparison for I'm Beginning To See The Light charts, iRp/GGB as I did for One Note Samba?
    http://www.irealb.com/forums/showthr...3913#post33913
    )BOB
    Last edited by pdxdjazz; 11-02-2015 at 11:46 PM.

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