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Thread: Deceptive ii V Prog

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    Default Deceptive ii V Prog

    I'm looking for a chord progression in a jazz standard.

    First there is one measure shared by "two five" chords,
    followed by an unexpected chord filling the next measure.

    Expected: D-7 G7 goes to Cmaj7

    Deceptive: D-7 G7 goes often to A-7

    My version: D-7 G7b9 goes to Ebmaj7 instead...

    It could be in any key, in any transposition, in any part of a tune.

    Please rack your brain! No-one I know can recall one for me...

  2. #2

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    The first thing that comes to mind is the bridge to Rodgers and Hart's "My Heart Stood Still" as in Chuck Sher's Standards book. The progression is F- Bb7 G7(b9 #5) Cmaj7. The Bb dominant and the G7 dominant share the same diminished scale. So the guide tone tritone interval B-F can be shared. You can add a Ab as well as a common tone.

    I guess you would call this a pivot modulation - the upper structure Ab-B-F stays static - the bass changes to establish the new tonal center.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2015
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    Default

    Thanks for the nice chord shift concept! I always like a new way to find my way to the alt V dom. But in this case the V does go to the I, which itself is an expected progression.

    The difference in my progression is that the G7b9 dominant goes not down a perfect 5th (or up a perfect 4th) to the C...

    ...it goes down a major 3rd (or up a minor 6th) to Ebmaj7.

  4. #4

    Default

    Think of your G7b9 as being an Ab diminished chord with a G bass. If you would shift the bass note only to Bb then you would have Abdim/Bb aka a Bb7b9 - which would be the dominant for Eb major. The chords are so related as to be interchangeable.

    It's a standard jazz piano practice to shift dominant 7th b9 chords by m3rds - to get motion in the comping - regardless of the root the bass player is holding (Herbie Hancock). Your progression strikes me as very similar.

    Of course the standard way to modulate up from C to Eb would be- Cmaj7 Fm7 Bb7 Ebmaj7. Circle of fifths. Take the Fm7 Bb7 and do a tritone sub - becomes Cmaj7 B-7 E7 Ebmaj7. Similarly subs on the m3rds are not so uncommon - but not unheard of either.

    Cheers

  5. #5

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    Oh - now that I'm at a piano I see what you are doing.

    This is a fairly common ending cadence if the melody ends on the root. I use it in Darn That Dream - key of G. Last cadence: Am7 D7 Gmaj7. Melody note G. Sub Ebmaj7 - if you want to resolve to the home key Ebmaj7 Abmaj7 Gmaj7.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    3

    Default

    Thanks again for all your analysis and consideration. I know all about chord subs & harmonic relationships. However, none of your examples matched mine. I'm searching for a jazz tune that uses three exact chord types in this order: minor 7th, Dom7b9, maj7th, with the roots relative to "D to G to Eb", with the "two five" in a measure & the target chord alone in the following measure... and I do not want to consider any subs whatsoever. I know it's very specific, but that's my game. I expect to find it somewhere. Thanks!
    Last edited by shizusan; 01-28-2015 at 06:42 AM.

  7. #7

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    Good luck with your search. The common tone between Cmaj and Ebmaj would be G. So the standard ii Vx I resolving ii Vx mIII deceptively would have melody not on G.

    I'm interested to know what you find.

  8. #8

    Default

    I found a tune with your cadence. The intro to Jobim's tune - Dindi.

    Bars 7 8 and 9. Dm9 G13 Ebmaj7.

    Cheers.

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