How to set number of player-repeats for solo sections

I was wondering how the player would handle a tune such as "the maze" (Herbie Hancock), where the changes of the head are slightly different from the choruses.
The head is only played twice (at the beginning and end of the song).
I could eventually add repeat bars and a number of repeats in edit mode for the chorus/solo section but those repeats are limited to 8 times only I think.
So if I use player's chorus repeat, it will always goes back to the changes of the head at each repeat.
Maybe it's time to think of a different algorithm to handle repeats, d.s, d.c. and codas.

Repeating a section within repeat brackets is not limited to 8x. (That's just the selection available in the text menu)

This chart will repeat solos 26x, 25 in the B-brackets and copied once more below (for 26) to warn you when the player is about to jump to the head.

Maze 1, The - Herbie Hancock

:))BOB

It might be worth reconsidering the traditional concept of "a page". The iRB Player already has the ability to scroll longer charts, yes? Allowing an unlimited number of lines would eliminate the need for multiple pages, or short bars to squeeze tunes into one page, which makes the chart harder to read. There could still be "page break" indicators for printing hard copies. Mobile devices have revolutionized how we read books and listen to recordings. Maybe it's time for "sheet music" to evolve too.

Thanks, Bob.
That's a good fix.
I didn't know that the numbers of repeats is unlimited in edit mode.
However, it would make more sense though to be able to change the number of choruses directly from the player mode to avoid switching back and forth from edit mode.
Anyway, thanks for the advice.

p.s. this thread has disappeared from the iRP app forum page (or I cannot find it). Good thing that I've received a link of the post by email!

I moved it to its own song discussion thread. It seemed more of a song specific, support/functionality issue than a request for a new app feature. I forgot to leave a trail of bread crumbs.
The player repeat setting sets the number of desired trips through the form top to bottom.
Setting the number of section repeats is specific within the form as charted, and is designated as part of the chart.
:))BOB

I understand.
Actually, this thread is not only about this particular tune. There are many tunes where the changes for solos are different from the head.
In this situation, the repeats from the player (on the form) are not useful because the head is usually only played twice (at the beginning and at the end).
I was just thinking of a more simple way for the player to repeat only the solo section (that could simply be done by adding a marker in edit mode to specify the beginning and the end of the solo section. Then, the repeats button in the player would only focus on that particular section.
This would also allow the player to play more complex song structure when needed.

How about a "repeat section until screen is tapped" button.
Much like a player would point to his head to signal "head-out".

Maybe it could even be done by air-turn.....

;))BOB

Well, since most devices have a front and rear camera, it could just detect a head move (or a blinking eye) for a cue to exit the repeat section, just like in live situation!

Just don't sneeze....
:))BOB

That's a good one :D

Here's a slightly different solution.

The Intro and first Head are both in the Intro.

Then the A Section is the solos.

Then the last Head is the Coda.

This way you can keep track of the solo choruses using the counter at the upper right.

Maze, The-Rev JE - Herbie Hancock

Cheers,
Jer

Great solution Jer!
:))BOB

Good idea, Jer!
That works well. As long as we name each section as you did, it should be alright.
For longer heads, we might run out of space if we need to write the head again as the coda. But for short tunes, this is a great alternative.

Thanks, guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyrilleB

For longer heads, we might run out of space if we need to write the head again as the coda.

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True.

But remember, if you don't have to write anything extra in the measures, they can be reduced to one or two beats each and will still play four beats. That can cut a tune to as little as one-fourth of its original length.

The program offers the option to write a tune with 96 measures of two beats each. You can reduce those to one beat each and write 192 measures. That's the equivalent of six 32-bar tunes written out.

Cheers,
Jer

Yes, I'm aware of this.
I often do this when possible for long tunes. But unfortunately, most of them often have 2, 3 chords in the same bar.

Yes, I have the same problem, as I like to write in bass note lines and passing chords.

Ah, well, longer charts are on the wish list thread.

Cheers,
Jer

As said before, label the head as Intro, then label solo choruses A or B, use D.S. to go back to head. use fine or coda with the D.S.

I've tried that. It doesn't work

Quote:

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Originally Posted by raymb1

As said before, label the head as Intro, then label solo choruses A or B, use D.S. to go back to head. use fine or coda with the D.S.

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The problem with this scheme is that at the end of the first solo section, the player goes back to the sign and doesn't repeat the solo section. Jerry's solution from June, 2016 is ingenious as it uses the normal counter to keep track of the number of times the chart has played. Below is a simple chart that illustrates how this works. I use the Swing Two/Four style to differentiate the sound of the head and solo sections.

Repeat Test - Keith

Yes, this is a good idea. But we still need to write once again the head at the end. This can work well with short tunes such as "the maze", but can quickly run out of space for longer 32 bars tunes if we have to write the head twice. In your example, we could also get a similar result by simply adding repeat bars for the solo section and specifying a number of repeats (8x for example) for that section.
The best would be to have a new rehearsal mark called "out" (as "outro") in addition to the existing "in", "A", "B", "C" and "D" markers. That "out" marker would only be played once at the very end of the song. That would solve everything.

Thanks for your "out" idea.
(or perhaps reprogram the coda-mark to permit the player to understand what's desired if the IN is to be repeated at the end as a coda.)

Since the A-section is already written in (hopefully) readable fashion, the final-out-coda A is only needed to get the player to play the correct form. For longer songs, the final A can be condensed beyond what the musician can read, with overlapping chords and impossibly variable spacing, the player will still work just fine. The musician can easily read and follow the "in" A at the top on the way out. To further avoid confusion you could include instructions for the musician using text.
:))BOB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CyrilleB

In your example, we could also get a similar result by simply adding repeat bars for the solo section and specifying a number of repeats (8x for example) for that section.

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This is the way I have written chord charts in the past. The issue is keeping track of how many repeats have been played and how many are there to go before going on to the next section. Jerry's solution keeps track of this with the normal counter in the upper-right corner. I agree with the suggestion of a new outro rehearsal mark, which would be a useful addition to iReal Pro.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith88

(repeat bars 8x etc.) The issue is keeping track of how many repeats have been played and how many are there to go before going on to the next section.

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Keeping track of the player-repeat count-down indicator is better than getting surprised by the position indicator suddenly moving on. It's been previously suggested to add a copy of the repeating section after and outside of the repeat brackets so you'll know that when the curser moves-on, it's the final repeat. Controlling it with the player is much easier.
:))BOB

CyrilleB,

As Bob says, the problem with specifying the number of repeats with repeat bars and #X is that you have to keep track in your head. With say, 8 repeats, one could easily lose track.

The Coda is the "out" marker.

Tunes in which the Head and Solos are identical obviously are not a problem. The problem is when the Head and Solo sections differ, and there's not enough room to repeat the whole Head.

Here's a solution using Keith's example that requires just one extra bar instead of repeating the Head:

Put the D.S. command in a one-bar Coda, which takes you back to the Head in the Intro.

The FINE command is on G7, but it actually goes into the first beat of an imaginary next bar, which defaults to the (invisible) tonic chord, C.

Of course, if you want to add an extended ending this won't work. It would be good if there were additional "jump to" commands, like extra Codas.

Repeat Test 1-Rev JE - Keith

Cheers,
Jer

Nice one Jer!
Easier to understand by viewing the chart/seeing it in action.
It's a good trick to have in your bag.
:))BOB

Thanks, Bob.

I rarely do this in practice, though, because I do like to put an extension on the end of a tune rather than end it abruptly.

Cheers,
Jer

A D.S. al Fine within a coda! Jer, this is a most imaginative approach. I think that Cyrille's suggestion for an outro rehearsal mark would be a useful addition to the editor. Also, as I sometimes use the same material as an intro and an outro, it might be useful to have an intro-outro rehearsal mark as well.

Our problems seem to emanate from the limitation of the number of lines that an iRP chart can have. This leads to the confusion around the use of the coda mark. Normally, a coda is only played once in a music score, at the very end. However, many charts use D.C (or D.S.) al Coda within them in order to avoid repeating a line or two; in this case the "coda" is played each time the chart is run through, making the "coda" part of each repetition instead of a true coda section. I've often rewritten charts that I have downloaded to remove the coda sign and replace it by a third ending when I have the space to do so. If our charts could vertically scroll, so that we could have more than thirteen lines in a chart, many of our problems with codas, repeats, and the like would disappear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keith88

A D.S. al Fine within a coda! Jer, this is a most imaginative approach. I think that Cyrille's suggestion for an outro rehearsal mark would be a useful addition to the editor. Also, as I sometimes use the same material as an intro and an outro, it might be useful to have an intro-outro rehearsal mark as well.

Our problems seem to emanate from the limitation of the number of lines that an iRP chart can have. This leads to the confusion around the use of the coda mark. Normally, a coda is only played once in a music score, at the very end. However, many charts use D.C (or D.S.) al Coda within them in order to avoid repeating a line or two; in this case the "coda" is played each time the chart is run through, making the "coda" part of each repetition instead of a true coda section. I've often rewritten charts that I have downloaded to remove the coda sign and replace it by a third ending when I have the space to do so. If our charts could vertically scroll, so that we could have more than thirteen lines in a chart, many of our problems with codas, repeats, and the like would disappear.

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Keith,

Oh, yes, indeed!

I suppose we're lucky iReal Pro is as versatile as it is, as it was originally intended just as a practice tool, and the creator subsequently added more features to satisfy the expanded use of the users.

It's ridiculously cheap at only, what, $20? I'd gladly pay $100 for some of the additional features we've been asking for.

Cheers,
Jer

The problem is that we always have to compromise between having a clear, easy to read chart (that follows standard music convention) and a chart that can be played as intended by iRealPro player.
I usually put the priority on having a clear chart that anyone can sight read.
The idea of the outro rehearsal mark is simply because there way iRealPro is handling the coda is not standard.
Usually the coda finishes the song. It should never go back to any part of the song once the coda has been played. Third endings is the way to go, but it doesn't work always as intended. I had some situations where the player just skipped the 2nd and 3rd ending (in a repeated section for example)
If the coda system were acting like a real coda, many problems would be solved.
I just think that if the developers would spend time to fix a couple of things regarding the coda, repeats, endings, we could have a fully functional​ player.

CyrilleB,

The problem is that the program was never intended to be a fully functional, all-purpose tool, but only a practice aid. Features were added to satisfy user requests, so it's now a mix of bandaids.

We have different uses for the program. I use it for backing tracks, not as chord lead sheets, so it doesn't matter to me if I violate notation conventions, as long as the thing will play what I need.

However, while a Coda should never go back to the tune, I don't find it hard to read when it does on a one-page chart. It's unconventional, but not indecipherable.

I heartily agree that it would be great if the developers would make the whole thing more useful. As I said, I'd be willing to pay a lot more for it.

Cheers,
Jer