Equinox - John Coltrane

The existing chart leaves much to be desired as it only contains the solo section, and the chords are dull. Plus it is not even in the right style. No intro, A section or coda. It's a joke.

That being said, this song presented some tough challenges to even get in the ballpark. The intro is a N.C. deal, and unfortunately, irp will not let you use the root bass notes by themselves; maybe in a future version, the programmers can add a slash to N.C. so we can do simple bass ostinato stuff.

Next, both intro and A section are syncopated, and in 4/4, you can't accent upbeats. As a work around, I notated all the syncopated parts as 3/8 to 5/8 time signatures; it's not perfect, but at least it sounds somewhat like Coltrane intended.

The second (comparatively minor) problem was Sher notated the I chord C#m as being C#m13 which irp doesn't recognize. I noticed from playing this chord on my guitar that it was actually an E major 9 with C# in the bass, so I went with that.

Last problem which I could not totally solve was with the coda. This song has a D.S al coda, and if you only ask the player to do one run through, it will go to the coda immediately and skip the solo (B) section. I had to set the repeat control at 2 to get it to continue from the A section to the B section. This is not, unfortunately, how the original recording goes, so if someone could fix that problem, we can close the book on Equinox.

Equinox - SM - John Coltrane


(Sorry I forgot the tags; you can't edit those in apparently.)

https://irealpro.com/how-the-coda-sy...-in-ireal-pro/
:))BOB

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My post just disappeared. Oh well, here we go again.

With all due respect, the link your provided isn't really telling me what I'm doing wrong here. I did what it is telling me to do as in the 500 miles example, and I quote:
"One way is to use the Coda as what is sometimes referred to as outro or tag.
As seen in 500 Miles High, the Coda will be played only once at the very end. [that's what I want]
If for example, you set the player to repeat 5 times, the main part of the song will repeat 5 times and finally jump to the Coda during the very last repeat {that's NOT what I want]

This appears to me to be a bug. It will not play all the way through if you only want one play; it will recognize the coda sign before the song is done. Also, it didn't stop at the end bar, and went up to play the A section again, and ended there.

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The forums indicated that you (accidentally?) deleted your missing post. I was able to restore it.

Using "DS or DC al coda" includes the coda in the form every time the player repeats.
Simply using just the coda-symbol(s) appends the coda to the form only the final player repeat. If the player is set to 1x, the first play is, in fact, the final repeat...

The IN (or V) section only plays once at the start unless instructed otherwise by a DC.
Using the Segno is unnecessary immediately following the Intro. Player repeats automatically start at the first letter-mark after the Intro.

To avoid confusion, it's best to describe your desired road-map (arrangement) for the song's form using rehearsal marks and ending numbers.
eg. In,A1,A2,B,C. Coda or AA BB CA etc.

:))BOB

Very nice chart Greg. Like the work around for the sycopation.

Your ending volta brackets (ending time bars) are placed one space ahead of where they belong.

Our goal for forum discussion is not just to arrive at (and only post) a "correct" chart, but rather to show the process and help future users.
:))BOB

Two more threads disappeared. I try to reply, and when I click on "reason for editing," poof, it's gone. What's up with that?

Bob, I couldn't find what you were talking about in the coda, but I did find that the C#m bar right before the 1st ending had only four spaces instead of five, so I fixed that.

Equinox - SM - John Coltrane

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Originally Posted by GregH3000

Bob, I couldn't find what you were talking about in the coda, but I did find that the C#m bar right before the 1st ending had only four spaces instead of five, so I fixed that.

Equinox - SM - John Coltrane

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See if this example helps
Ending Volta Bracket Placement - Example

Don't worry about changing the number of spaces in each measure as you change time signatures. It's not neccessary and usually doesn't matter.
:))BOB

So you're basically asserting that it is somehow incorrect if the volta bracket is parallel with a bar line below it? What is the thinking behind this?

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Originally Posted by raymb1

Very nice chart Greg. Like the work around for the sycopation.

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Thanks for the encouraging words. You might want to download the revised version; I had to repair a couple of errors I missed.

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Originally Posted by GregH3000

So you're basically asserting that it is somehow incorrect if the volta bracket is parallel with a bar line below it? What is the thinking behind this?

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Ending indicators are correctly entered in the first space of the first bar of the ending. Placing them anywhere else is unusual.
Can you see the difference in the example chart I posted for you?

:))BOB

Is this what you're looking for?

Equinox - SM - John Coltrane

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Originally Posted by GregH3000

Is this what you're looking for?

Equinox - SM - John Coltrane

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Nice chart.

I made a few additional cosmetic changes.

Equinox - SM 5 - John Coltrane

:))BOB

Thanks, Bob; very pretty. I've trashed mine and renamed yours to make it the master copy.

Equinox - Sher Music - John Coltrane

Gettin up to speed writing iRp charts that work in the player, AND are easy to read, AND look nice, AND squeeze onto a single page can be a challenge.

It's a process that takes time but gets easier.

Our goal for forum discussion is not just to arrive at (and only post) a "correct" chart, but rather to show the process and help current and future users get better at it.
:))BOB

Any chance of this version replacing the one on the jazz list? There has to be some kind of precedence for this process; so many of those charts are pretty low budget.

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Originally Posted by GregH3000

in the main Jazz playlist thread.
Niki, I've been re-doing many of the standards with the changes that were published in the Sher Music Standards volumes. Would it be appropriate for me to post them here, or should I just make a separate thread for each as I did recently with "Equinox"?

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Greg, if you had read Niki's post that was immediately preceding yours you would have found your answer

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Originally Posted by Niki

.......
If you've made a properly formatted chart of an important Jazz standard that you think should be added to this list, feel free to post it here:

https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...-Jazz-Playlist ........
;)

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So, in addition to sharing your charts in the song discussion threads on the forums, per the posting guidelines:
https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...-and-playlists
you can post your suggested charts for consideration to add to the main Jazz playlist (one chart at a time please) in the specific thread for that purpose (link in Niki's quote above). Also include your explaination of why you think your chart should be used.

The forums have been here for more than a decade. You can likely find existing discussion, questions and answers on most topics if you look.
:))BOB

Greg,

Very clever alternating 3/8 and 5/8 time to get the syncopation between beats 2 and 3 in 4/4 time!

Thanks much for the tip. I'll use it.

(P.S. Correct visual placement of the chords is not always that important, as the built-in rhythm usually puts them in the right place. But if you want the visual to be accurate, the second chord in each 5/8 bar should be on the fourth beat, not the third. The clave on the Latin 8/8 is on 1 - 4 - 7. )

Cheers,
Jer

I've been asking to fix the coda problem for years. If more people are reporting this issue, maybe the developers will do something about it sooner.
Currently, it's impossible to use both a D.S. (or D.C. al 2nd ending) AND a coda in the same song. The player will always jump to the coda BEFORE even play the D.S. al 2nd ending. That's very frustrating and limiting!
About posts that disappear while editing an existing one, I also have the same issue. I've reported this issue few years ago but nothing has been done to fix it so far

Actually in order to emulate a C#m13, it should be notated as a EMaj9#11/C#. The EMaj9/C# don't have the 13th.
If you don't need the 11th in the chord, then it could be notated EMaj7#11/C#.
However, it would be better if the m13 chord type be added in the library. It's a pretty common chord used in jazz music!

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Originally Posted by CyrilleB

I've been asking to fix the coda problem for years. If more people are reporting this issue, maybe the developers will do something about it sooner.
Currently, it's impossible to use both a D.S. (or D.C. al 2nd ending) AND a coda in the same song. The player will always jump to the coda BEFORE even play the D.S. al 2nd ending. That's very frustrating and limiting!
About posts that disappear while editing an existing one, I also have the same issue. I've reported this issue few years ago but nothing has been done to fix it so far

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Thanks for validating my frustration. This is the one aspect of irp's programming that I keep bumping up against and it drives me crazy.

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Originally Posted by CyrilleB

Actually in order to emulate a C#m13, it should be notated as a EMaj9#11/C#. The EMaj9/C# don't have the 13th.
If you don't need the 11th in the chord, then it could be notated EMaj7#11/C#.
However, it would be better if the m13 chord type be added in the library. It's a pretty common chord used in jazz music!

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Good catch, Cyrille; thanks very much. I just edited that modification you suggested in, and it does sound closer to the recording.

Have you taken the survey for what new features you would like to see the irp programmers work on? It's on a sticky thread somewhere around here, and I'm sure you have lots of ingenious ideas.

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Originally Posted by GregH3000

Have you taken the survey for what new features you would like to see the irp programmers work on? It's on a sticky thread somewhere around here, and I'm sure you have lots of ingenious ideas.

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Yes, I did fill out that survey times before

Warning: The following chart is not meant for reading purposes. It is designed mainly for IRP to play as close as possible to the original recording. It's basically a minor blues
Equinox - John Coltrane

Great chart CyrilleB!!!
You deserve a Gold Star. It's amazing how far you can stretch what was initially designed to be a practice tool.
Your chart is most instructive on rhythmically innovating with the player.
Excellent.
:))BOB

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Originally Posted by CyrilleB

Warning: The following chart is not meant for reading purposes. It is designed mainly for IRP to play as close as possible to the original recording. It's basically a minor blues
Equinox - John Coltrane

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Wow the way you utilized two bars of 3/4 and a bar of 2/4 was very effective. Nice job, and very tidy looking as well.

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback!
It could even sound better if the power chords (1, 5) could be played one octave or two lower.
I've already suggested a while ago to the IRP support team if they could lower the octave for power chords. Those chords are usually played in lower range, not high range. I hope they will fix this some days.
Having kicks and pushes implemented would also be a great add instead of having to always compromise between an easy to read chart and a good play-along

Even better than previous versions. Nice chart CyrilleB!

Great charts I’ve found really useful as I’ve just been learning this on piano. Does anyone know how to make the intro Latin and the rest swing?

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Originally Posted by Robhatherton

Great charts I’ve found really useful as I’ve just been learning this on piano. Does anyone know how to make the intro Latin and the rest swing?

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Generally, only a single style can be used for a chart...
The Latin/Swing jazz style will play the A section using Latin and the B section in swing only during the first and final player repeats. Additional song repeats will be swing.

https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...ithin-the-song

By relabeling song sections using rehearsal marks and using only 1 player repeat you may be able to exercise more control over the way a chart plays.

In this example additional (solo section) repeats are designated on the chart (8x) instead of by using the song repeat setting in the player.

Equinox - latin-swing - John Coltrane

:))BOB

Thanks Bob, that’s really helpful. I’ve even re labelled the head out as B then it doesn’t play in Latin! I’m a bit puzzled about all the different timings. Is that just to get the bass line in or because it’s closer to the original recording than 4/4?

Here's what CyrilleB wrote when he posted that tasty version:

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Originally Posted by CyrilleB

Warning: The following chart is not meant for reading purposes. It is designed mainly for IRP to play as close as possible to the original recording. It's basically a minor blues

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I used his chart as an example because of the intro.

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Originally Posted by pdxdjazz

Great chart CyrilleB!!!
You deserve a Gold Star. It's amazing how far you can stretch what was initially designed to be a practice tool.
Your chart is most instructive on rhythmically innovating with the player.
Excellent.
:))BOB

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Here's more discussion of the player-workaround he used to force the rhythm.
https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...beats-up-beats

Rob, I'm glad the example was helpful.
:))BOB

Unless you have a more sophisticated and more expensive program like Band-In-A-Box, Cyrille's chart is the only way to get the head to sound right.
.to sound right.