Enharmonic nightmare

Printable View

11-09-2017, 03:28 PM
retrocool

Enharmonic nightmare

I'm playing with a band and they've got a chart, originally in F, which they have transposed to Concert E.
I'm looking at the chart transposed for Bb trumpet.
It is a car crash.
The first two chords for me are F#7#9 and B9
But they show in iReal as Gb7#9 and Cb9.

I have looked through the forum and everybody says 'it's complicated' but this chart, and frankly loads of others, are made unnecessarily hard to read on a gig by terrible enharmonic notation when they are transposed, and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it!

Is there a solution?

Cheers
11-09-2017, 05:13 PM
pdxdjazz

Enharmonic display after transposition is a complicated issue to solve.

You basically have three iRp options

1. Live with it (let's move on to the other two)

2. Make a duplicate of the problem chart and "fix" each chord to appear exactly the way you like. (hard to do on the fly) but then your chart will always work for you.

3. (Disclaimer: this is NOT an approved solution but may offer a quick fix, though may cause other issues)

Experiment with resetting the chart's default key to a different (incorrect, mis-labeled) key. You may have to try several times. This is done on the song's info screen (i) in the editor. Use the "set" button, NOT the 'set and transpose" option.

This work-around was described in this thread;
https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...tion-Confusion

:))BOB
11-10-2017, 06:43 AM
retrocool

Thanks for that, very useful. It won't help when transposing on the fly, but option 3 could be useful to make some regular charts easy to read.

I don't think 2 works at all if you are also transposing the chart for Bb, I tried changing the original to enharmonic variations but it did not affect the transposed-for-Bb chart.

Some sort of preference is obviously needed, there must be a way iReal could be changed to never show me a 2-5-1 in B as Dbm7-Gb7-CbMaj7. Perhaps the programme should automatically recognise and group 3-6-2-5-1 -type progressions and present them sensibly.

Thanks!
11-14-2017, 06:14 AM
Mawess

Agree with the post above. Not having a sensible way of the chords is a mayor nuisance for us playing transposing instruments. g# major ? FFS...
11-15-2017, 09:45 AM
cocoa

Quote:

Originally Posted by retrocool

... Perhaps the programme should automatically recognise and group 3-6-2-5-1 -type progressions and present them sensibly.
...

Yeah, I saw something like this some years ago: a Program which could do a Jazz Harmonic Analysis

https://de.scribd.com/document/21653...y-Segmentation

https://sixthhappiness.github.io/Jazz.html

Unfortunately it is written in OCaml, a language I never learned, sigh!
12-18-2020, 10:51 AM
Igorsaxofy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxdjazz

Enharmonic display after transposition is a complicated issue to solve.

You basically have three iRp options

1. Live with it (let's move on to the other two)

2. Make a duplicate of the problem chart and "fix" each chord to appear exactly the way you like. (hard to do on the fly) but then your chart will always work for you.

3. (Disclaimer: this is NOT an approved solution but may offer a quick fix, though may cause other issues)

Experiment with resetting the chart's default key to a different (incorrect, mis-labeled) key. You may have to try several times. This is done on the song's info screen (i) in the editor. Use the "set" button, NOT the 'set and transpose" option.

This work-around was described in this thread;
https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...tion-Confusion

:))BOB

This is a half assed response if i’ve ever heard one! You people still haven’t worked this sh out and it’s been literally years and years ! When is this getting fixed? This really puts the app down ! Horrible to read. Get on it pretty please. I get that coding and excel formulas can be challenging, but this is bullsh
12-18-2020, 02:29 PM
pdxdjazz

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxdjazz

Enharmonic display after transposition is a complicated issue to solve.

You basically have three iRp options

1. Live with it (let's move on to the other two)

2. Make a duplicate of the problem chart and "fix" each chord to appear exactly the way you like. (hard to do on the fly) but then your chart will always work for you.

3. (Disclaimer: this is NOT an approved solution but may offer a quick fix, though may cause other issues)

Experiment with resetting the chart's default key to a different (incorrect, mis-labeled) key. You may have to try several times. This is done on the song's info screen (i) in the editor. Use the "set" button, NOT the 'set and transpose" option.

This work-around was described in this thread;
https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...tion-Confusion

:))BOB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igorsaxofy

This is a half assed response if i’ve ever heard one! You people still haven’t worked this sh out and it’s been literally years and years ! When is this getting fixed? This really puts the app down ! Horrible to read. Get on it pretty please. I get that coding and excel formulas can be challenging, but this is bullsh

Igor,

Let me be sure I understand you.

Five years ago you purchased an inexpensive product that worked exactly as it was described to work.
You would like it to work differently.
You have used the product for over five years.
The product has been updated and its functionality has been increased multiple times (at no additional cost to you)
The amount of content available for use through the product has vastly increased. (again, at no cost to you)
All the content has been graciously shared and provided by other users on the Forums.
You have provided no content to the Forums for the use of others.

Right?

What exactly makes you think you are entitled to (in your very first post) insult and abuse the iRp team members who work to improve this wonderful app and help users get the most from its use?

:))BOB
02-15-2023, 08:31 PM
Danides

After more than 10 years....

Still the same nightmare..
I've been struggling for one hour trying to change a (long) tune from Gb to F# but incredibly NO WAY! Despite in the "set and transpose" list there are both keys, the result is always Gb.
After more than a decade of complaints, the nightmare is still the same.
The homophonic keys are not considered.
Really a shame...
Daniel

Quote:

Originally Posted by retrocool

I'm playing with a band and they've got a chart, originally in F, which they have transposed to Concert E.
I'm looking at the chart transposed for Bb trumpet.
It is a car crash.
The first two chords for me are F#7#9 and B9
But they show in iReal as Gb7#9 and Cb9.

I have looked through the forum and everybody says 'it's complicated' but this chart, and frankly loads of others, are made unnecessarily hard to read on a gig by terrible enharmonic notation when they are transposed, and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it!

Is there a solution?

Cheers
02-15-2023, 08:50 PM
pdxdjazz

Sorry for your frustration.

FOR HELP WITH YOUR CHART

For help with a chart post your chart here in iRp format so members can download it and open it in the editor.
https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...1154#post71154

The “best” answer for your situation usually depends on your specific chart.

:))BOB

Also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxdjazz

Enharmonic display after transposition is a complicated issue to solve.

You basically have three iRp options

1. Live with it (let's move on to the other two)

2. Make a duplicate of the problem chart and "fix" each chord to appear exactly the way you like. (hard to do on the fly) but then your chart will always work for you.

3. (Disclaimer: this is NOT an approved solution but may offer a quick fix, though may cause other issues)

Experiment with resetting the chart's default key to a different (incorrect, mis-labeled) key. You may have to try several times. This is done on the song's info screen (i) in the editor. Use the "set" button, NOT the 'set and transpose" option.

This work-around was described in this thread;
https://www.irealb.com/forums/showth...tion-Confusion

:))BOB